DV: You started a discussion on social networks about the need for visa restrictions for Russian citizens. Do you really think they are important for European security?
Toomas Hendrik Ilves: Yes, given the history of visa abuses. We can start with the poisoning of Litvinenko with polonium and also remember the Skripals - they were poisoned in the UK by people who arrived on tourist visas. Let's not forget the murder in the Berlin district of “Tiergarten“. This is a reason to be cautious with visas. We can point to other events, including what happened in my country, Estonia, since 2007, when “ours” came and caused riots. Should I recall the explosions in the Czech Republic at a munitions factory, organized by people with tourist visas... I could go on and on.
That is why I think we need to check people from Russia much more carefully, especially after a Russian (Igor Rogov – ed.) was recently arrested in Poland, posing as an oppositionist, but in fact spying for the FSB, including against Navalny. We need to be much more careful with the people we let in. Why are we giving Russian citizens multiple-entry visas to the EU when Russia itself is waging a genocidal war in a European country? I think this is outrageous.
DV: It is alleged that Hungary issues multiple-entry visas to people in Putin's system, to many Russian officials and their families, who get them very easily.
Toomas Hendrik Ilves: Yes, there is such a problem with Hungary. It is for this reason that the EU is trying to limit multiple-entry visas for the EU - so that some people cannot travel freely throughout the Schengen area.
DV: But there are pro-European citizens in Russia who really want to be part of Europe - not in the way Putin imagines it, but as Europeans.
Toomas Hendrik Ilves: Maybe there are people who really understand and believe in the rule of law and civility. But this ban does not stop access to Europe at all, but only affects multiple-entry visas for Russians. Let's make life a little harder for them when they live in a country that kills people, kidnaps children and commits genocide. The hysteria of these people on social media about stopping the issuance of multiple-entry visas to the EU is striking compared to their silence about what is happening in Ukraine. One would even think that a new Holocaust is being committed against Russians. But where is the outrage over the kidnapping of tens of thousands of Ukrainian children, over mass rapes? There is none. That is why I consider them spoiled children who have enough money to travel and who think they have the right to receive multiple-entry visas.
DV: But Putin's regime will not last forever and will end one day. Won't this decision push Russians away from the European path and European values?
Toomas Hendrik Ilves: And what makes you think that Putin's system itself will not last? It is much more likely that this will happen – we will have more of the same. To deviate from the European path, you say? People either want democracy or they don’t. And they become democracies because they want the rule of law, because it is right, and not just to be part of the European Union (EU). The idea that countries will democratize if they are offered to be European sounds strange to me. In Estonia, we achieved it ourselves. Why can’t they achieve it themselves in their own country?
DV: But shouldn’t we worry about the people who stay in Russia? You must be following the news from Russia, where they are arresting people for singing songs.
Toomas Hendrik Ilves: Then let them leave. They don’t need a multiple-entry visa for that. If you want to leave, no one can stop you. But if you come to shop in Parisian boutiques, then you will have to apply for a visa again every time.
DV: The European Union and NATO are already preparing to repel a possible Russian attack. The Baltic countries are even more specific - some are even talking about 2027...
Toomas Hendrik Ilves: We do not think that they are planning to attack on any specific date. On the other hand, aggressive actions in the “gray zone” have become more frequent - from cutting cables, through drones in the sky, to jamming GPS signals, which also leads to flight cancellations. Even more scandalous is the case of DHL shipments from Estonia, loaded onto a Lithuanian plane, which fortunately did not explode. I do not like the term “hybrid war” - this is war.
DV: The attack has already begun, right?
Toomas Hendrik Ilves: That's right. And it continues, it's just that NATO is too cowardly to call it a war because it's afraid of the consequences. So "hybrid war" is a convenient term that allows NATO to avoid any action.
DV: Do you think Russia is ready to attack a NATO or European country with conventional methods?
Toomas Hendrik Ilves: No, I don't think they would want to do that, because NATO, although it has clearly not cared enough about defense spending since 1990, still has enough forces to repel any attack with conventional weapons. And I don't think Russia would want to do that. The risk is too great.
But there are attacks in the “gray zone“ that we constantly observe - disinformation, attempts to undermine democratic elections in Moldova, in Romania, support for the “Alternative for Germany“ party in Germany, credits for Marine Le Pen - none of these things can trigger the action of Article 4 or Article 5 of NATO. It is simply convenient to call these things “hybrid war“, but this is war. Because they are at war with Europe. There is no other way to say it.
Author: Olga Tikhomirova